Filmmaker Emily Branham is a director, a producer, and an editor in New York City. She specializes in unexpected, intimate, and deeply human films about artists.
Her first feature documentary Being Bebe, premiered at Tribeca Festival, was a New York Times Critic pick, and won jury and audience awards on its festival tour across five continents.
Being Bebe Intimately charts 15 years in the life of drag performer Marshall Kudi Ngwa, AKA Bebe Zahara Benet, an Immigrant to America From Cameroon, first champion on reality TV phenomenon, RuPaul's Drag Race, and a leading artist celebrating Black Queer Excellence today.
Marshall's emotional journey raises timely concerns at the intersection of LGBTIQ, BIPOC and immigrant lives within the context of a hard fought artist journey towards success against all odds.
Emily directs doc style films for clients, including Lincoln Center, Atlantic Council, Martha Stewart Weddings, and AT&T, as well as music videos for artists including Jonatha Brook, Jeff Littman, the Muckrakers and Eleni Mandel.
She has years of experience working with incredible creatives in high pressure environments as a post-production and visual effects producer for clients including Apple, Google, Nike, Lexus, Paramount Pictures, Gwen Stephanie, and Kanye West.
We had a beautiful conversation exploring many topics including:
We also talked a little bit about Drag Race, my squeamishness with the meanness of reality TV, and Emily's prescription: Willow Pill.
This was so much fun. It was my immense privilege to have had the opportunity to hang out with such an extraordinary and talented woman. She's a giant force in this delightful and humble human. Enjoy!
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Being Bebe now available on iTUNES/appletv & prime video!
You can access it here: https://geni.us/BeingBeBe
or here: h
***
I'm so glad you decided to hang out with me. Thank you so much!
Loved what you heard? Awww, that's so great. What's that? You WANNA HELP MY SHOW GROW?😃 Saweeeeeet! It's so easy. Leave a review!
Here's a simple way to do that: just click THIS LINK (or copy/paste this url: https://ratethispodcast.com/permissiontoplay ), follow the quick-n-easy steps, and BAAM! You've helped all the people find Chatty Kathy Martens and Permission to Play. See how easy that was? Thank you so much, it really does help!
Here are some great ways to find more of me, your host, Chatty Kathy Martens (someday we'll talk about this ridiculous name on Episode...???):
Filmmaker Emily Branham is a director, a producer, and an editor in New York City. She specializes in unexpected, intimate, and deeply human films about artists.
Her first feature documentary Being Bebe, premiered at Tribeca Festival, was a New York Times Critic pick, and won jury and audience awards on its festival tour across five continents.
Being Bebe Intimately charts 15 years in the life of drag performer Marshall Kudi Ngwa, AKA Bebe Zahara Benet, an Immigrant to America From Cameroon, first champion on reality TV phenomenon, RuPaul's Drag Race, and a leading artist celebrating Black Queer Excellence today.
Marshall's emotional journey raises timely concerns at the intersection of LGBTIQ, BIPOC and immigrant lives within the context of a hard fought artist journey towards success against all odds.
Emily directs doc style films for clients, including Lincoln Center, Atlantic Council, Martha Stewart Weddings, and AT&T, as well as music videos for artists including Jonatha Brook, Jeff Littman, the Muckrakers and Eleni Mandel.
She has years of experience working with incredible creatives in high pressure environments as a post-production and visual effects producer for clients including Apple, Google, Nike, Lexus, Paramount Pictures, Gwen Stephanie, and Kanye West.
We had a beautiful conversation exploring many topics including:
We also talked a little bit about Drag Race, my squeamishness with the meanness of reality TV, and Emily's prescription: Willow Pill.
This was so much fun. It was my immense privilege to have had the opportunity to hang out with such an extraordinary and talented woman. She's a giant force in this delightful and humble human. Enjoy!
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Being Bebe now available on iTUNES/appletv & prime video!
You can access it here: https://geni.us/BeingBeBe
or here: h
***
I'm so glad you decided to hang out with me. Thank you so much!
Loved what you heard? Awww, that's so great. What's that? You WANNA HELP MY SHOW GROW?😃 Saweeeeeet! It's so easy. Leave a review!
Here's a simple way to do that: just click THIS LINK (or copy/paste this url: https://ratethispodcast.com/permissiontoplay ), follow the quick-n-easy steps, and BAAM! You've helped all the people find Chatty Kathy Martens and Permission to Play. See how easy that was? Thank you so much, it really does help!
Here are some great ways to find more of me, your host, Chatty Kathy Martens (someday we'll talk about this ridiculous name on Episode...???):
Emily Branham Filmmaker
Intro
​[00:00:00]
Kathy: Hello and welcome to my first ever podcast episode. Episode one of Permission to Play. Can you believe it? I may. I live to tell the tale. So here I am and I am so delighted and honored that you have chosen to spend a little time with me here. I'm hoping that you will find this episode. Entertaining and fun and enlightening.
I had a blast hanging out with filmmaker Emily Branham. She is... and I'm just, you know, I'm gonna read the script here because like, her credits are amazing.
She's a, a filmmaker, a director, a producer, and an editor in New York City, she specializes in unexpected, intimate, and deeply human films about artists.
Her first feature documentary Being Bebe, which is a stunning film by the way, premiered at Tribeca Festival, was a New York Times Critic pick, and won jury and audience awards on its festival tour across five continents.
Being Bebe Intimately charts 15 years in the life of [00:01:00] drag performer Marshall Kudi Ngwa, AKA Bebe Zahara Benet, an Immigrant to America From Cameroon, first champion on reality TV phenomenon, RuPaul's Drag Race, and a leading artist celebrating Black Queer Excellence today.
Marshall's emotional journey raises timely concerns at the intersection of LGBTIQ, bIPOC and immigrant lives within the context of a hard fought artist journey towards success against all odds.
Emily's short documentary is Legend, a film about Greg Garing. It's about an extraordinary bluegrass musician who confronts a lifelong secret.
Emily made Legend in just five days and then won the jury prize for the best film of the International Doc Challenge at Hot Docs in Toronto. Then screened at Sheffield Doc Fest, IDFA, Nashville, Big Sky, Rooftop Films, and on the Documentary Channel.
She directs doc style films for clients, including Lincoln Center, Atlantic Council, Martha Stewart Weddings, and AT&T, as well as music videos for artists including Jonatha Brook, [00:02:00] Jeff Littman, the Muckrakers and Eleni Mandel.
She's originally from Minneapolis she was a child actor who earned her SAG/AFTRA card at five years old, and found her happy place both on and offstage at the Guthrie Theater and Children's Theater Company.
When she discovered that filmmaking combined all of the many varied art forms she loved, she studied radio, tv, and film on the directing track at Northwestern University, and has been happily behind the camera and edit suite ever since.
She has years of experience working with incredible creatives in high pressure environments as a post-production and visual effects producer for clients including... Oh my God. This list. It's so long. I mean, if she started acting at five, she had to have started in production at like seven, because this list. I mean, I'm not gonna read it, but there's name, I mean Apple, Google, Nike, Lexus, Paramount Pictures, Gwen Stephanie, Kanye West. I mean, there's some names on here.
So anyway, she's seen a lot for one so young. And is truly a talent. Her films are delightful, and heartbreaking and [00:03:00] inspiring, the highest production values. I highly recommend them. I can't recommend them enough.
We had a beautiful conversation and we talked about so many things. Among them, we of course discussed Being Bebe, her film, um, and her struggle with the 15-year process of bringing that film to fruition. Talk about like, oh my God, guts and glory, 15-year process.
We talked about her other award-winning short documentary Legend. About iconic bluegrass musician, Greg Garing.
We talked about the synchronicity of the universe and, Trigger Warning: there may have been some mention of woo owners in that segment. Well, it's alright. You'll be all right.
We talked about her childhood acting career and how it segued into filmmaking.
The creative process and the community that forms around collaborative artistic endeavors.
Playfulness, and its role in emotional and mental wellness, and doing the work of self-care to stay well for ourselves and our art.
We also talked a little bit about Drag Race. My squeamishness with the meanness of reality TV, and Emily's prescription: Willow Pill.
This was so much fun. It was my immense privilege to have had the opportunity to hang out with such an [00:04:00] extraordinary and talented woman.
She truly is a force. She's a giant heart wrapped up in a Dimin... Dimin.... Why, why am I even using that word? Why would I use the word diminutive? Because it just sounds so smart? I don't know. Look, she's a giant force in this delightful and humble human.
We pick it up in the middle of chit chat. So, enjoy.
​
Kathy: It has been so fun to get to know you a little bit in the background through the class we're taking, but also, as I've seen your beautiful films.
Emily B: Aw, thank you.
Kathy: Yeah. I only got to listen to one interview, but, very, beautiful. What you're putting into the world and the heart that you're bringing with it.
Emily B: Thank you. we are trying very hard, you know, it's, it's a deeply personal project, which some people find surprising if you just read a blurb about what it is. it's something, you know, I've lived with for over 15 years now [00:05:00] and it's about a very dear friend of mine and I really care about connecting it with the people who need to see it.
We're talking about, Emily's, film,Yeah, so it's a, a documentary feature film called Being Bebe, and it's about Bebe Zahara Benet, who was the very first winner of RuPaul's Drag Race. and I started filming with Bebe in 2006, so three years before she was ever on tv. And she was a promising amateur drag performer in Minneapolis, which is my hometown, where my family still lives.
And I met her when my little sister was dancing, backup for a local pageant, local drag pageant. And I, I was out in New York, which is where I live now, and have, for, basically all of my adult life and working on music videos and, you know, trying to find my way as a, as a director. And my sister told me about this, this drag performer that she was dancing back up for, and I was, just pulled like, it's the only way I can describe it, just pulled from the very instant I heard about Bebe to find out more.
And then when I saw Bebe perform live, it was just [00:06:00] like, oh my goodness, like there's something really special here. And, yeah, I also thought we were making a short film, but over time it expanded and , I'm just really grateful that Bebe um, aka Marshall was open to letting me and my camera in and sharing so much.
Kathy: Yeah. That's quite a long odyssey. You took together.
Emily B: It was never supposed to be, but...
Kathy: What an honor and a privilege to get to spend time with somebody so special and who has become such a part of your, kind of, your family.
Emily B: It's true. It's very humbling.
Kathy: I can imagine. I love the way that you talk about how, you know, you thought it would end with Drag Race and then you realize that the arc of the story hadn't been covered yet.
The patience it must have taken to be willing to let the project unfold over time and not like pressure it to come into the world before it was ready. I mean, you know, as a writer, I know it's hard. You'll, you'll get something, you'll get a draft of something and you'll think, yeah, this is the thing, you know, and then you, but I think there's, you, [00:07:00] there's always that deeper artist that says, Hmm, maybe not quite ready.
Yeah. And so you put it away or you let it rest and let it simmer, and then you pull it out again and you go, oh, yeah, okay. Not quite there yet.
Emily B: It's really true. Yeah. I feel like really from 2009 onward, I kept kind of feeling like, oh, I feel like in just another year we're gonna... It's gonna be there. And then, yeah, it was again just like deeply humbling to realize, no, this isn't the story that it wants to be yet. And to really care about doing justice to the full breadth of Bebe's lived experience as much as possible and, and needing to wait for real life to play out.
Kathy: Yeah. Well, I must say that at the end of the doc I was like, oh, I want more. I mean, seriously, it was like, I wanna see, I mean, Marshall sort of reinvents himself over and over. I mean, of course Bebe is is central to who he is, so she's along for the ride and she's part of the journey. But to navigate the world of [00:08:00] entertainment, you know, and you see artists who have weathered decades and decades and have sort of reinvented themselves and to see how, how would Bebe morph?
What, what would she, you know, and especially, and I'm just gonna say it, and I mean this in the kindliest of ways, because I'm in that space right now as we age, and mature and, our bodies change. It's like, how do , we take that and make that part of our medium and allow it to morph into whatever it wants to be. So I think seeing where Bebe goes even from here to me is intriguing.
Emily B: Me too. I mean, yeah, at some point you have to take the, you have to take the drawing away from the five-year-old, you know, and just say, okay, it's done. But it's true that Bebe story will, will go on and, and I too am excited to see where it goes next, although, yeah, you can't ever pin him down on exactly how old he is.
Kathy: It is hard to tell. I mean, he's, he doesn't, he hasn't aged. I mean, his face is like... he's gorgeous, whether he's, in Bebe or [00:09:00] in Marshall. And, just, I also will just a admit right now that I'm new to the whole drag scene, so I'm trying to be sensitive to how he, she preferred to be related to. So forgive me if I, you know, step all over that.
Emily B: No, you're, you're doing great. And it's, it's always good to ask because every individual is different with their preferences. And Bebe really, is very fluid with pronouns, with, names and is very comfortable in that fluidity. So a lot of times I use he/ him pronouns when I'm thinking of Marshall and daily life out in the world.
And then she/ her pronouns when I'm thinking of Bebe and the regalia. But also in the drag scene, everybody's a she. I'm a she. my partner's a she, this glass of water is a she, like everything's a she, so...
Kathy: Oh, that's beautiful.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: We could use a lot more feminine energy in the world. Anyway, so...
Emily B: yeah.
Kathy: That's good.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: I want to ask a little bit more about your other film, Legend. The film about Greg Gehring. Completely unfamiliar with this artist, and I [00:10:00] went and checked it out and was in tears, of course, by the end, I don't know how, I mean, you've got some skills girlfriend to, to, you know, to take... how long is the film... seven...? Seven minutes. And so completely, I mean, it's like one of the best short stories, it pulls me right in, in such a short amount of time and makes me care about this beautiful human. So, thank you for making that and also for introducing me to an incredible artist.
Emily B: Isn't he phenomenal? And just one of the best kept secrets in bluegrass music. I mean, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for watching it. I mean, that is a deeper cut, and I appreciate your, your level of research and prep for this. That's really cool. I kind of made that film as a reaction to the frustration I was feeling in how long it was taking to find the story of Bebe and not being sure how it was gonna go.
And, I actually entered a documentary making contest where you had to make a film from start to finish in just five days. it was called the International Documentary Challenge.
Kathy: Like NaNoWriMo.
Emily B: Exactly, yeah. [00:11:00] Which I've definitely done as well.
Kathy: Oh, you're a writer too?
Emily B: That was back before I started the Bebe film, so like 2005 maybe?
Kathy: Okay. get around to that. Okay.
Emily B: Yeah. Yeah.
But, I was so frustrated. I was just like feeling like a failure. That Bebe had won this reality show and I couldn't, I just didn't have the movie yet in my hands. I didn't know what it was gonna be. And I remember like writing a million times, like I am a person who finishes things, and just beating myself up about it.
and then this contest crossed my desk and I was like, oh, that's what I need. I need to finish something quickly. I need a deadline. I need some structure. And, yeah. It was one of those things where they like assigned a theme and a gave you a, a genre of documentary that you were assigned. And I had just seen Greg perform the previous week at a little little bar on the Lower East Side.
A friend had encouraged us all to go because he was like, oh my gosh, this guy Greg Gehring is like one of the most talented people I've ever seen and nobody knows who he is. And so it just felt like synchronicity and I reached out once I got the assignment of music [00:12:00] film, or arts film, I forget what it was.
And fortunately, he was open, to sharing his story at that time in a way he hadn't been before. He'd been really, really private about his health issues and, for good reason. I mean, you know, there's some danger in sharing that, as a creative professional. So...
Kathy: Yeah. That was beautiful. I'm so glad that that opened up as it did, and we talk about synchronicity, but it's almost like, I don't know, you just pulled that one in. You know, okay, I need this. Oh, here it comes. And that It was an art... I mean, there were other categories that could have been assigned to you?
Emily B: Oh yeah, some people got assigned like historical, you know, and then what would I have done? I have no idea.
Kathy: Oh, you'd have found something, but even so this was so perfect.
Emily B: Yeah, so it ended up winning that contest. And then from there, the finalists got to show at a big North American documentary festival called Hot Docs in Toronto. And then from there some programmers at big documentary festivals like Sheffield in the UK and IDFA in Amsterdam saw it and programmed it.
And so I got to go to these [00:13:00] amazing festivals and it just like opened my mind so majorly to what a documentary can be. Because I got to see so many films that are not being distributed widely in the US and they're just some incredible, incredible artists making doc films that we never get to see.
Kathy: I wish I knew, what the answer was to that quandary.
Emily B: Right? Yeah. It's just tough. It's just marketing is so tough.
Kathy: I think some of it is just a lack of education, like people understanding that these things exist, which is beautiful about some of the, the platforms that we can now distribute through.
Seems like there's getting more and more autonomy for the artist to be able to put their work in the world. But it is difficult to get eyeballs in front of it sometimes, especially because of the density of stuff that's out there.
But I guess that's where the beauty is of this sort of grassroots thing where we can actually talk about it, and you only need a, a little slice of the, the pie is huge, you know...
Emily B: The pie is huge. There's so many people. And I think the thing that we're all learning is that, the more you can niche down and identify who your audience [00:14:00] is and just go directly to them wherever they are, the more potential you have to, to reach the people who need to see it.
Kathy: Absolutely. And trusting, just kind of trusting that, um, flow. I don't know. I tend to maybe go toward the woo a little bit. I mean, full confession: I walk around with a little woo boner most of the time. You know...
Emily B: I love that.
Kathy: I can roll my eyes, at it, but at the same time, I always circle back around there because like, if you have to believe something, why not believe in like, the beauty of the universe and that thriving is what we're meant to do, you know.
Emily B: Completely. Yeah. Though I feel like the older I get, the more I'm connected to that and the more I feel I need it in a way, to sort of liberate the ego from being too attached to what you're making.
Kathy: That's beautiful for an artist to think about, the non-attachment, so that you can get outta the way of the process...
Emily B: Exactly.
Kathy: And birth, what wants to come through.
Emily B: Yep.
Kathy: Yeah. How long ago did you make Legend?
Emily B: It came out in 2010. Bebe won Drag Race in 2009 and then, yeah, I finished that in 2010.
Kathy: And are you in touch with [00:15:00] him at all in between now and then, or...
Emily B: Here and there. He's an interesting character. Um, yeah, so we stayed in touch a bit. There was a little bit of prize money for that award and we shared it and did some fundraising for Greg as he was struggling.
So that was really positive, but he, yeah, he's still a little bit sensitive about, he wanted to make the film; he wanted it to be out there, but I think he's got a little discomfort with it still, with being part of his truth. So... but I know that he's well, and he's in Nashville and playing.
Kathy: Good. Yeah, I did see that he is out there doing things and that, and he actually looks much more well than he did during the documentary. I don't wanna
have any spoilers here but...
I actually would've dove deeper and listened to some more music because just a few moments of hearing him was like connecting with something so real and raw and in its most pure form of artistic beauty, you know?
Which, I mean, it comes from practice, of course, but there's just something there that I don't know, special.
Emily B: [00:16:00] Really special. yeah. And, and similar to Bebe and just that raw talent in terms of channeling emotion, being able to connect through his art.
Kathy: It's
Emily B: it's a really special talent he has.
Kathy: Watching Bebe's like watching a live wire that's just all over. I love it. So can we, now we we're in the, the film timeline. Can we just push it back or what is it on Facebook now? Down and see, see a little bit more of Emily coming, like ramping up to her filmmaking days, like childhood actor. What's that? What?
Emily B: Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, you know about the acting part. Yeah, so I grew up doing theater in Minneapolis, in the Twin Cities. There's a really great theater scene and I sort of stumbled into it. you know, was scouted for a print thing at five years old. And then, you know, like, very weird. I peaked at six and, that realm of my, my modeling career, doing target ads and things, cuz Target [00:17:00] is also based in the Twin Cities and did their, their stuff locally.
So through meeting an agent for that, they suggested I go out for theater for things like the Guthrie Theater has an annual Christmas Carol that they put on and they need kids for. And so I ended up doing that for five years in my childhood and then started getting into professional children's theater.
There's a great children's theater company there, equity theater. I got to be Beth and Little Women and Becky Thatcher in Tom Sawyer. And, just loved it. Just loved it. It was like my sport growing up.
When I got to college, thought I wanted to be an actor and went to a school with a good theater program and started to go through that program and to audition for student shows and feel that process and that rejection and, I realized I, I couldn't hang, I, I didn't want to, you know.
So I started taking some film classes and poking around and was like, oh, I like this. You know, I've always liked computers. I like making things, felt like film kind of synthesized everything I loved from writing and psychology to lighting and music, and it's, you know, I felt like I could stay challenged for the [00:18:00] rest of my life trying to figure out this film thing, so...
Kathy: for sure. A very, very layered art.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: That's fun. So many aspects to enjoy and I really wanted to be a filmmaker too, but I didn't go that route, but, um...
Emily B: There's still time.
Kathy: Right. I'm not dead yet.
Emily B: Mm-hmm.
Kathy: There's a lot to learn, but, but I think now having gone the writing route is I'm learning so much about story and that's the essence of filmmaking anyway.
Emily B: So it all works together and timing is everything. But, um, oh, shoot. I just totally lost my train of thought. This is what you have to look forward to in the next 15 years, losing your train, and your marbles. what was I gonna ask you? Maybe about theater, acting...
Kathy: Yeah. Well, it was about filmmaking. Oh, the collaborative aspect.
That's another thing always has intrigued me, I think theater as well, is that you do have a piece of art that you have your part that you contribute. But the team that forms around the end product is so, especially if everybody's on board and...
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: so [00:19:00] many different personalities, but you're working for a common goal and the beauty of that.
How was that with your doc teams?
Emily B: So it's interesting. I'm, I'm such an introvert as it turns out, and some of my favorite parts of the process were like the more writerly, solitary parts. But you're right, that actually the most fulfilling parts are the collaborative elements. And I could not have finished, especially the Bebe film, without a team.
I pursued team members for years, including, you know, my producer Mark Smulowitz, who's a veteran LGBTQ filmmaker, producer extraordinaire talent, who's always made really artful work that I, I was really impressed with.
And, Even to the collaborative nature of my friendship with Bebe I mean, it's a trust building exercise and it's real.
And the people in Bebe's orbit are so special. And the fact that I got to meet all of them and interact with all of them and bring them into the process is so special.
And then the editing process. I do a lot of editing myself, and I did kind of lay out the broad [00:20:00] strokes of a lot of the cuts, but I was so close to it, especially once we decided that I was going to be in the film too.
It was like, I am not gonna be able to finish this by myself as an editor. So every time we got a little bit of money, we'd hire an editor.
And we worked with a few over the years. In 2009, I worked with a great editor, Ali Catterall and she laid things out and that was when we realized, oh, we don't have a movie, and back to the drawing board.
And then in 2015, a lovely editor, Anne Rose, who's a former Sundance executive who made a late stage career move to be an editor, help me lay out an assembly. And that was a really powerful moment in the film's life, but also we realized it wasn't quite there yet.
And then, to bring it through the finish line, I started working with James Codoyannis, who is just such a delight. And, yeah, he will be a lifelong friend and collaborator. We really were on the same wavelength with things and he contributed so much.
Kathy: Oh, that's amazing. That's beautiful.
Emily B: But also if you watch the credits, they're so long. I feel like everybody I've known in my adult life has, has had a [00:21:00] hand in making this happen. You
Kathy: Yeah.
Emily B: including 650 Kickstarter backers.
Kathy: Awesome. Yay for them.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: Well, it's one of those things that I love the most about performing arts, is that it creates community, you know. It creates community in the people working, but also, well, of course, live theater, it creates community with the audience too. And I think you probably have found that on the festival circuit, right? I mean, you get to like brush shoulders with your audiences a little bit.
Emily B: Oh, it's such a different, wonderful, transformative experience to be in a room with other people watching the film. It's the best.
Kathy: That give and take energy and
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: responses and...
Emily B: Yeah. I feel so lucky, even though we premiered during Covid technically, you know, in June, 2021, we still got to have some in-person festival experiences I will treasure.
Kathy: What is the life span now of a doc that's been out and it's hit the festival circuit; where is she at now?
Emily B: It's a great question and it's interesting. There are no rules. You know, it's sort of, I guess the one thing that people [00:22:00] don't tell you or drive home enough, is that finishing the film is not actually the hardest part or the end of the road.
As a filmmaker, the distribution part is... you'll get as much out of it as you wanna put into it, basically. So I really do feel like if I take my foot off the gas with it, that maybe we will have peaked with who we've reached.
And in my heart of hearts, I don't feel like we've reached everybody that we're supposed to reach yet with the film, so...
One of the ways I'm being creative now is my distribution of the film and trying to connect the film with audiences in new ways and build partnerships. We're working towards a Public Television premier in June of 2023.
Kathy: Awesome.
Emily B: On PBS. Yeah.
Kathy: That's exciting.
Emily B: So that will be another bump in opportunities to reach people with it.
Kathy: I'm sorry, can you say that date again?
Emily B: It'll be um, Pride of 2023. So June. We'll be partnering with PBS on that. So that's an opportunity too, to partner with people who want to help us spread the word about that. So we'll be continuing to have what I'm calling the Community Empowerment Tour, [00:23:00] bringing the film to different community groups, organizations. We've got a screening next week in Chicago that I'm super excited about, an organization called Brave Space Alliance, which supports Bipoc Trans members of the community.
Bebe and I are gonna be there in person; I just hope it will be a model for what we will continue to be doing in the coming nine months at least, with connecting the film more directly with people whose lived experience might feel represented in the film and who can connect with Bebe personally on it.
Almost like a intergenerational mentorship kind of a capacity afterwards.
Kathy: Wow. That's so fun. More layers. I love that it's becoming, its complete self. And also I love that you referred to this part of the process as another form of creativity.
Emily B: That has been a reframe that has been really important to me because I think a lot of filmmakers just like hate this part of the process. It's like, Ugh, I just wanna be back behind the camera. I wanna be back on set. I wanna be making the next thing. And I absolutely want that too. But I just, like I said, I feel my heart of hearts that we aren't done yet.
I [00:24:00] still have a photo on my desk of one of the individuals that we filmed with in Cameroon who serves as my anchor and my why of why the film matters.
I just don't feel that I've done them right yet, with making the film reach who I feel it needs to reach yet. So, I don't know as long as I can, and I'm finding a way now to do it, I I wanna keep trying.
Kathy: Awesome. I would like to take that concept a little bit further now since both of us have an interest in interacting with and dialoguing with creatives, through our podcast. And we'll talk a little bit later about your podcast. The idea of what is creativity, what is its role in life, and your reframe that you just talked about.
For me, oftentimes, there are certain aspects of, of my crafts and my various forms of creativity that I categorize somehow as an other, and so I resist that part of the process. So I'm just curious, can you unpack your reframe?
Emily B: Yeah, I mean that particular reframe, I think it's been cemented for me by the joy that I've felt in, in going through it, I guess, like it was [00:25:00] a reframe that was given to me by a distribution consultant who I've taken courses with and think is pretty great. His name is Keith Ochwat and he's just extremely creative with helping filmmakers think outside the box um, traditional distribution because there're so many great films being made right now that we don't know about, as we said, you know, that aren't getting on Netflix or if they are getting buried there.
It was, he and another person, Peter Broderick, who suggested that you be as creative with your distribution as you are with your filmmaking.
I've just so enjoyed the people that I've gotten to meet through this. You know, like the Brave Space people are freaking incredible and I can't wait to get back to Chicago and work with them on this.
Once you start to realize it's not names on a spreadsheet that you're cold emailing, it's individuals whose dreams and work goals and things can be served through your film. And it's like, oh wow. Like what a cool thing that they are looking for programming for their next employee resource group Pride event.
And how special could that be for them to [00:26:00] have a reason to come together and talk about things that they reacted to personally in the film and have that exchange with their coworkers. And what if their relationships get better at work and they feel more belonging there because they related to Bebe even though they don't identify with their background necessarily. There's just so much possibility in it.
Kathy: That's the beauty of it, is the possibility, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's, I, I talk about this a lot, is that I feel like creativity, we put it in certain baskets instead of perhaps considering that life itself is creativity.
Emily B: Oh, absolutely. And the more we inject our daily lives with creativity, the more joyful I think we are and the more satisfied I think we are. Um, I feel like inspiring others is one of the greatest things that art can do. And that's, I think because there's something so, satisfying and fulfilling and joy giving and purpose giving in creating something. Even if it's not for public consumption, that to inspire somebody to go out and make their own thing, is purpose in and of itself.
Kathy: How do you feel [00:27:00] about the relationship between art making and wellness, and why is it that so many creative people struggle, whether it's with resistance to their art, actually making their art, or just being well, emotionally, mentally. I wonder what that relationship is, and I wonder if there are ways to reframe that as well. Any thoughts on that?
Emily B: Definitely. I've thought about this quite a bit. I feel like having a film to work on, having a podcast to make, having a project that feels bigger than you're comfortable biting off is something that has kept me emotionally well, I believe. I do have family history of depression.
I know that my inclination would go that way. And I think a lot of people in my orbit have been concerned for me. And what are you going to do once you're done with this film, having had it be so important to you for so long? and I feel like reconnecting to creativity and a new project of a podcast [00:28:00] and really following through with the distribution is helping me avoid the dips of emotional unwellness. And I think, sometimes it verges on workaholism for me a bit, which I'm working on...
Kathy: How do you work on that?
Emily B: I've got some good influences in my life. My partner of the past four years is really a wonderful influence for me on that.
Kathy: Keeps you grounded?
Emily B: Keeps me grounded, keeps my days structured and I think that's really valuable and just makes me laugh.
Laughter. That's a good thing.
Emily B: One of the most important things.
Kathy: Such medicine.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: like some kind of weird drug,
Emily B: Big time.
Kathy: you know?
Emily B: Big time.
Kathy: It made me think while you were saying that about like, so my podcast is Permission to Play because this is a, this is a message that has been coming to me for the last decade of trying to get myself into a space where more often, I'm feeling positive and up than down. And I want to find that within myself. I wanted to find ways, like, I wanted to get a little deeper and say, are there things that I'm not seeing about [00:29:00] myself that I could reframe that might help me find a more expansive space?
Creativity is one of those, but stillness also is one of those, like, discovering that story, while it's amazing, it can also like, fuck your mind up . You know what I mean?
So asking the question, what story am I telling myself right now? Playfulness is, for me, intrinsically linked with creativity and, finding how is life itself playful in each moment.
Have Any thoughts about playfulness, how it's linked to creativity and how those things expand us humans?
Emily B: Yeah. Playfulness is something that I did a lot of work to get back to. I think in the process of making this film, there were a lot of periods of yes, me telling myself pretty negative stories about myself and about my failure to finish this film. My really negative toxic self-talk, to the point that, I decided to hire a, a hypnotherapist to help me remove the emotional attachment [00:30:00] I had to working on the project and help me work through it.
And oh my goodness, was that game changing?
Kathy: Really...
Emily B: There was something about just sitting down to edit, confronting footage that my 26-year-old self recorded poorly or like making choices I wish I hadn't made, you know? And just like being confronted with it again and again and trying to figure out what was the missing piece that would make it all come together.
And so, yeah, when I went to these hypnotherapy sessions, the practitioner really helped me with the different visualizations and reconnecting to inner child and visualizations of actually completing the film. And it really helped rewire my mind into a positive space to just like get outta my own way.
Because those resistance gremlins were so strong that I could spend most of my day just resisting them. And I was finding that I couldn't really get any work done until the evening. Because then I was just so tired.
Kathy: It takes an immense amount of energy to battle and resist.
Emily B: Yes.
Kathy: Yeah. Yeah.
Emily B: So I [00:31:00] found that was a good tool for me.
Kathy: Do you find that that modality is something that, like, did it teach you any tools for the fly? I mean, was that a one and done or a one-off for that period of time and then that's done?
Or does some aspect of it stay with you that you can continue to practice?
Emily B: I think there's certain visualizations that I still, they're so vivid to me and I still come back to them at certain times. I found it more one and done than, than psychotherapy, that's for sure. Although I did get so much out of it that I would go visit her, once a month or once every other month for a while. And then I think eventually she hypnotized me into having confidence that I didn't need her anymore. Because She was like, you're fine. You know? I don't know. It was interesting. She's fascinating.
Kathy: There's somebody you can trust who will like, work themselves out of a job.
Emily B: Honestly, the most ethical hypnotherapist in town. Hypnotherapist get great reviews on Yelp, by the way. It's fascinating.
Kathy: Oh, okay, I'll have to check that out.
Emily B: They're very good at getting those. But she really deserved them.
Kathy: I've done a lot of research into, the [00:32:00] psychedelic therapy space. With the work they're doing with psilocybin and stuff right now to treat PTSD and depression, anxiety disorders and stuff.
They talk about the rewiring of the brain, which I think is the same kind of concept as the hypnotherapy where it can help disconnect certain connections that just keep repeating and loops that keep playing. And because of the plasticity of the brain, it allows that rewiring to then take place.
Although they do say, and I would imagine this is also true of the hypnotherapy that you still have work to do. You know what I mean? So in the end, you're still responsible for your stories, you're still responsible for, questioning what you're telling yourself and really becoming present to just even notice what's happening, even if it's uncomfortable.
I, I hope that doesn't sound harsh, because I don't mean it that way, because sometimes when you're in it, it's so in your face that how do you notice it? Like It's swallowing you whole. But I do think with practice, like you can get just a breath of air just enough to see it and go, what's that? There's something here. You know? And then employ whatever tools you have at [00:33:00] hand to ... even if the tool is go put your feet in the soil, you know?
Emily B: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Or Just go outside.
Kathy: Any movement.
Emily B: That's been a big one for me.
Kathy: Mm-hmm.
You talk about,being an introvert. I think many creatives actually are introverts. But funny to me that a lot of performers are also introverts, but there's something that they get from putting themselves out there.
I'm just curious, over the years as, as you've kind of labeled, I don't wanna say labeled yourself, but you find yourself to be an introvert. How ha have you found your filmmaking work and putting your films into the world has changed or softened or maybe increased that?
Emily B: Yeah. That's a really interesting question.
I do think it was my experience growing up, being in these professional theater scenarios that a lot of the most actors that were in the big parts were introverts, were shy people, and yet yes, excelled at channeling another character on stage.
And I was like, yes, I identified with that. [00:34:00] Then when I got to theater school I was like, oh no, these are kind of a different breed of people who are in theater school than the ones I had encountered at the Guthrie in the children's theater, in the equity positions.
So, it kind of threw me for a loop because I was not that. And also at the heart of it, it was too painful, the audition process for me.
Kathy: Yeah.
Emily B: They really try to train you, I think in your first weeks of, of theater school, if there's anything else you wanna do, you should do it.
You know, like they really don't wanna encourage you to go down this path. They don't want that responsibility . Unless, unless you really feel like this is the only thing you're meant to do. So I took that to heart cuz it wasn't the only thing that, that I felt I could do.
but that said, I do feel like my comportment is not necessarily that people expect a director to have quote unquote. I definitely encountered that once I got into the real world of like, music, video, directing. I thought I wanted to make music videos when I graduated college. And so I dipped a toe into that world and, worked in a music video production company.
Emily B: And, yeah, it was really interesting realizing a, that the industry was not a [00:35:00] meritocracy. It was very personality driven and it was much more about sales and winning the job, than executing. But yeah, there's an expected comportment that does very well in the role of director on commercials and music videos.
And I don't match it, you know, like, it's usually a guy with a booming voice, is what I learned in my early twenties. I think that's getting better as time goes on.
So I thought a lot about comportment and how that was sort of a hindrance towards reaching my goals in my early twenties.
When I discovered documentary then, because I'd only made short docs in college and didn't think it would be something I went into professionally, honestly. Until I met Bebe and was like, oh no, I think I'm supposed to make a documentary. Once I got into the documentary industry, I really felt a kindred spirit with other people in the community. It's a very generous community. A lot of filmmakers in the documentary space are very altruistic and generous and kind and sharing of information. You know, because there's so little money to be made, we're all just like trying to help each other. yeah. Yeah. Helpful and not helpful. I'm like broken, but beautiful.
So, I don't know. I feel like the introversion [00:36:00] is, I don't know. It just is what it is and it's, it's been okay. Because I think I'm a complicated introvert and that I also thrive in festival settings. I really love going to conferences and talking to other filmmakers. I just need a full day to recover afterwards.
Kathy: Right? Or longer.
Emily B: Or longer, Yeah. Especially post COVID. Like that muscle was really weak.
Kathy: Yeah. So do you think the filmmaking is firmly ensconced in the documentary path, or do you think that there might be other divergences or...
Emily B: It's a great question. I love documentaries. I would be excited to continue to tell stories particularly of artists. I, for whatever reason, continue to be drawn towards the stories of artists themselves as something I wanna explore more. The creative process, I think, is endlessly fascinating and diverse in how people manage it.
So, I'd like to keep doing that, but my identity isn't totally tied to it. So... I think that's why I'm dipping a toe into podcasting. I'm really just waiting to be pulled by the next thing, the way I was so strongly with the Bebe [00:37:00] concept. I think I'm kind of refilling the well; I was really burnt out by June from all of our rollout.
I feel like I'm just now starting to be full enough to be open to to more inspiration to hit.
Kathy: Yeah. Whatever's next. That's good. Just be open.
Emily B: But I'd love to make music videos and maybe a romantic comedy, you know?
Kathy: That would be fun.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: Super playful. That's really cool.
Emily B: Yes, more play, more delight.
Kathy: Yes. More play and delight. And that's certainly something that the world needs right now. I would love to see entertainment take a more inspiring, you know, although I have to, I mean, it's not like we need a bunch of sappiness or anything like that, but I think there's a lot of story that can be told that has happy endings, you know.
Emily B: I agree. I agree. And can be deep and complicated along the way too.
Kathy: It can be. I mean, because that's how life is, right? It's full of paradox and dark and light and shadow and, and it's hard and it's risky and that's just how it is. But I feel like we need that [00:38:00] dose of, joy and love.
Emily B: Yep.
Kathy: You know.
Emily B: Yep. That's what I reach for, at the end of the day. Much as there are very important films to watch that have darker, more dramatic themes. We all just need something to to buoy our spirits when real life is challenging.
Kathy: Yeah. Yeah. So I have a couple one off questions for you. What about your life makes you well up with gratitude?
Emily B: This moment. I'm really grateful for this moment, for this really special time. I do feel a lot of gratitude and a sense of accomplishment that we did get this film out into the world. It was not easy. There was a lot that we overcame to make it happen. And I'm just really proud of, of how we've done it.
And, yeah. So I'm really humbled by that and really grateful for these days.
Kathy: That is beautiful. And it's a little mini lesson for all of us to take inspiration from that when you're in the middle of something that [00:39:00] feels like you can't see where it's going or how the outcome is going to be, and it feels uncomfortable. it's okay to be in that space and to trust that whatever will be, will be, and that the universe kind of pretty much delivers beauty in the end, even if there's bumpy tribulation in between.
Emily B: Absolutely.
And the messy middle is normal. And sitting with that discomfort is part of the process. Just showing up...
I took a lot of inspiration from Liz Gilbert podcast while I was in this process, and she talks a lot about how when she sits down to write, she sort of shouts at the universe.
Like I, I never promised to make a great novel, but I did promise I would show up and, and make a novel. And that's all you can do. All you can do is show up and sit with the uncertainty day after day.
Kathy: And you cannot overstate the present moment.
And there again-- woo-- what's that? But if you step back for a second and just sit in your space and notice your butt in the chair and your feet on the floor and [00:40:00] this microphone-- this thing sitting in front of me, like, I won't even label it.
Just a few moments of that can draw you into this moment. And you have to practice it. Like how many moments are there in a day?
Emily B: Yeah. Too many to count.
Kathy: So your next big thing is your podcast, right? Do I, do I have that right?
Emily B: Yes.
Yes. I feel a little tightness in my chest about it because, you know, it's like, ah, you know, I'm sitting with the uncertainty in the messy middle of making it, but yes, it's called, You Can Fly Too. And yeah, the whole idea of it is connecting with creative people who are creatively building their lives around their art, their creativity, and learning how they do it.
you know, from the perspective of somebody who spent 15 years with their whole life force pointed towards one project, I did a lot of other things, but it, like, it's always in the back of my mind, you know, what will come next? And, and how are other people making it work for them.
Kathy: That's exciting. You Can Fly Too. That's lovely.
Emily B: Yeah, thank you.
Kathy: I'm super excited. I joke in my trailer for my podcast [00:41:00] that, you know, I might get Liz Gilbert, and I was joking, but you know what, let's get Liz Gilbert. Okay?
Emily B: Let's get Liz Gilbert already.
Kathy: Right? Why not?
Emily B: She loves talking on a podcast.
Kathy: Yeah. She has so much beauty to share with the world I mean, aside from her fiction, which is gorgeous, also her wisdom, very lovely.
Emily B: The way she talks about creative process is so empowering.
Kathy: Yeah. The iconic Ted Talk about the genius is...
Emily B: Oh, yes.
Kathy: If you haven't heard please go listen. Right?
Emily B: Truly. Truly. Yeah.
Kathy: Yeah Remembering that we just show up. That's all we can do.
Emily B: Honestly. All we can do.
Kathy: Yeah. I have some quick fires. How do you feel about those?
Emily B: Fabulous.
Kathy: Whatever Whatever comes to your mind and, and if
Emily B: Okay.
Kathy: it's, heinous, then we'll edit it out. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. Okay. All right. What's your go-to comfort food?
Emily B: Potatoes.
Kathy: Coffee, tea, crack?
Emily B: Coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee.
Kathy: Have you tried the mushroom coffee that's out there now?
Emily B: I have not.
Kathy: It's quite interesting. I love it. I haven't drank caffeine in [00:42:00] three or four years because it was just messing with my nervous system too much. But I love coffee. The ritual.
Yeah. I decided to try it because it has a teensy bit of caffeine in it. So I, I drink this herbal coffee tea, it's like a chicory, you know, grain kind of tea. Mushrooms to me are the savior of the universe. They're powerful.
Oh my god, the earth would cease to exist without them. And the many health benefits of them are beautiful.
So I tried this new one called Rize, and I can only take a little, because it does have some coffee, coffee in it, so... but I love the depth of texture that it adds.
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: if you're like me, I drink coffee or my tea for the cream.
Emily B: Yes. As a Minnesota girl, I, yeah, it's hard to have a meal without dairy.
Kathy: Yeah, right. Yeah. But anyways, I'm digressing from our rapid fire, but I don't like the, the, pressure of it anyways. Okay.
Emily B: No, that sounds great.
Kathy: We'll do it slow. So what's, what's your imaginable animal?
Emily B: Imaginal animal. Hmm. The first thing that jumps to mind is lion.
Kathy: Ooh, I like [00:43:00] it.
Emily B: But I don't know why.
Kathy: Ooh. Well then you can sit with that later and then you can tell me.
Emily B: Is imaginal imaginary?
Kathy: Yeah, well, I was trying to say, you know, your spirit animal, but I'm trying to be sensitive there, so I think we all have something imaginative that we kind of, kind of our, our guide. So I will, I will do some
Emily B: Yes.
Kathy: cultural appreciation here...
Emily B: There you go. There you go.
Kathy: And say, what's your imaginal animal?
Emily B: Imaginal animal. Yeah. It's some kind of a, a, a very brave cat, that's for sure.
Kathy: Yeah, I
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: Mountains, ocean, desert, celestial body, City?
Emily B: Mm. City I like shade. I like New York. But then, a side of mountains every once in a while also for the shade and the hiking.
Kathy: I live in the mountains. I mean, literally.
Emily B: That's so cool. Where are you again?
Kathy: Way up in northern California, in the mountains. I'm about an hour from the Oregon border. Tucked way up in a little gold rush town, which we won't talk about the gold rush. Um... So... [00:44:00] what makes you laugh?
Emily B: Um, well that. Apparently. Oh gosh. A lot of things. Mostly Dan, my partner.
Kathy: Oh, I love that. Yay, Dan.
Emily B: Yay!
Kathy: My partner too. He's so funny. My partner, I've been married to this guy for almost 40 years, we're 39 years, and,
Emily B: Oh, it's beautiful.
Kathy: And if he always says, you never laugh at my jokes. It's like, dude, we wouldn't have been married for this long if I wasn't la. I just, I, I, I laugh at your unintentional jokes. Those are the best ones.
Um, what is the key ingredient in your secret sauce of joy?
Emily B: Oh, secret sauce of joy. Oh gosh.
Kathy: Could Could this be a single little spark.
Emily B: Colored pens.
Kathy: I love that. My granddaughter would love that.
If Chatty Kathy was to pull your string right now, what would you say?
Emily B: Oh, what does Chatty Cathy say? imperfect action always gets rewarded.
Kathy: Oh, that's beautiful. Now can you say it like a creepy little doll?
Emily B: Imperfect action always gets rewarded. I have no [00:45:00] idea how chatty Cathy talks.
Kathy: Something like that.
Emily B: I'm reading off a post-it on my computer.
Kathy: I love it. That's beautiful. what word best encapsulates the nature of reality for you?
Emily B: Uh, bullshit?
Kathy: Love that. We're sticking with that. I've been having a great time getting to know you.
Emily B: Oh, me too. This has been so. much fun.
Kathy: Very, very fun. It is. I feel very honored to, and there's so much more, actually, that I could say about your work. You know, honestly, I'm not just stroking so that, you know, you keep me in mind for your next-- No, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. Truly, your heart shines through,every shot of that, of Bebe for sure. Well, both of them. I mean, just heartbreaking, beautiful touching. All of the makeup moments are astounding. All the tight shots...
Emily B: Isn't she stunning?
Kathy: Oh, just the camera work. And I'm talking about your end of it. Yes. She's like beyond, she's off the charts. but artistry with which you [00:46:00] created it is beautiful. So thank you for doing it.
Emily B: Aw, thank you, Kathy. Thank you for taking the time to watch it so thoughtfully. It means a lot.
Kathy: I think I told you that I immediately was texting my son and his wife, because they're big Drag Race followers.
Emily B: Oh, awesome.
Kathy: And actually, honestly, I haven't watched Drag Race much, and then they started talking about it and I thought, oh, that sounds intriguing.
I'm not a big reality TV fan. So I went and watched a couple episodes of I think a pretty recent season.
And frankly, I just was upset by the meanness that I was seeing. And I don't know if that's just part of the entertainment value, you know, it's kind of how, you know, the shock value of people saying something bitchy and then the other people responding. But I just, I'm so empathic that when I see somebody get shredded...
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: I just, there's something about it that it's hard for me; I just don't have the skin for it.
Emily B: I hear you. I hear you. For me, the style of the show is so in your face, it's a lot of stimuli. And there times in my life where it's too much for me. But I also think over the years it's gotten gentler and especially the [00:47:00] seasons that they made during the pandemic, I think are really loving.
So, there's a particular season I might encourage you to watch, especially because, you've, you've disclosed your, your mushroom interest. There's a really, really special Drag performer. her name is Willow Pill, and...
Kathy: P-I-L-L?
Emily B: Yeah. Willow Pill. And she's just so freaking creative. She is just an artist through every fiber of her being.
Kathy: I love that. I don't know, I forget what number that season is. is It's not this latest one, but the one before.
I'll say the name and my daughter-in-law or son will say, oh, that's season, whatever.
Emily B: Exactly. Yeah. They'll point you in the right direction.
Kathy: They know these ladies very well.
Emily B: Yeah, it's a funny thing. And as you know, like our movie is not really a Drag Race movie. It just happens to be about the first winner of drag Race. But I do have a lot of affection for the show. I think it has done a lot to empower people to be their most individual selves and to just, I don't know, let their freak flags fly. You know?
Kathy: Well, certainly a spirit of creativity and fun and [00:48:00] performance.
Emily B: And self-acceptance, you know?
Kathy: And expression.
Emily B: Some of the earlier seasons are kind of mean, so Yeah.
Kathy: I just remember thinking, oh, oh, don't be mean, don't be mean.
Emily B: Yeah. Everybody's trying.
Kathy: Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And yet, I understand that the competitive thing is a thing...
Emily B: Yeah.
Kathy: That's very articulate. Um... So, in the show notes, I will put any and all contact information so that people can follow you... follow you, Check out your stuff and you know, I'll make sure there's plenty of access to Emily Branham goodies.
Emily B: Thank you. That would be awesome.
Kathy: Best of luck with the podcast I know it's gonna be fantastic
Emily B: Best of luck with yours. I'm so excited about it.
Kathy: I wish I knew what it was. It's just me wanting to chat with people I admire.
Emily B: We're figuring it out.
Kathy: We'll figure out the podcasting thing and we'll also figure some other shit out.
Emily B: Ain't that the truth?
Kathy: Well, Thank you.
Emily B: Thank you, Kathy.
Kathy: Be well and I hope we continue to, stay in each other's orbit a little bit.
Emily B: For sure, for sure. And I can't wait to interview you next
Kathy: Oh, we'll see how that goes.
Emily B: It's gonna be amazing.
[00:49:00] [00:50:00]
Outro
Kathy: Thank you all for listening to this, my very first ever podcast episode. It truly was one of the biggest leaps of courage and faith that I've taken in my many artistic endeavors. I really appreciate you supporting me, showing up, and spending your precious time with Emily and me.
please support this Extraordinary Artist Project. You can do so by watching these amazing films. Being Bebe is available on iTunes and Apple TV and Prime Video. But I will drop links to all things Emily Branham, all things Bebe, all things Legend in the show notes. So please check it out.
If you enjoyed this conversation, would you please come back for more? I've got some really interesting and inspiring guests on tap for upcoming episodes.
I've got award-winning authors, plant medicine people, nervous system experts, just a smorgasboard of goodness and curiosity.
And also, if you could please help me grow my audience by sharing with your friends, and especially by subscribing to, rating, and reviewing the show. It really does help people find me.
Thank [00:01:00] you so much my friends. It means so much that you chose to spend your precious time with me today. Be well and remember to think less, play more. Grant yourself permission to play.
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